You don’t want to work in the video game industry

Discussion in 'General Gossip, Troll Wars & Game Development' started by Eclectic, Nov 12, 2009.

  1. Eclectic

    Eclectic Banned

    There are now many hundreds of millions of people playing video games. It is inevitable that many millions of these are great gaming enthusiasts and that many of these want to work in the video game industry. My advice, based on 30 years in and around it, is don’t. And here’s why:
    • Playing video games is fun, it is entertainment. So you might think that making video games is fun. It isn’t. Not more or less than other jobs. Because that is what it is, just another job.
    • People who are industry wannabes always say that they want to be game designers. This is because they don’t know how a game is made. In fact there are very few game designers involved. On any development team the main sort of people are artists (of different sorts) and programmers (of different sorts).
    • Being keen about video games is no qualification whatsoever for working in the industry. Being a good computer programmer or artist is a much better basis. Even better is to be very good at maths. Game companies want people with the skills to make games and being an enthusiast isn’t a skill.
    • The competition to get into the game industry is fierce because there are so many wannabes. So the industry can be very, very choosy. When I was at Codemasters the minimum degree to get in was a 2.1 and you had to score over 130 in an IQ test.
    • Because so many people want in the wages are terrible. Similarly qualified graduates going into other industries will typically earn a lot more.
    • If the wages are bad then the working conditions are worse. Crunch is a widespread practice in the industry. Huge numbers of hours of unpaid overtime.
    • Career advancement is typically very, very slow. This is because most of the jobs are at a similar level, programming and creating art.
    • The work itself is often tedious, repetitive and boring. It is a hard slog to create all the dots that you see on the screen. There really are lots of better and more interesting jobs in the world.
    • Job security is awful. Companies routinely get rid of people as the work flow fluctuates. No matter how good you are it is ridiculously easy to find yourself out of a job.
    • The training industry has jumped onto exploiting the wannabe. Lots of colleges and universities have jumped on the bandwagon. There are now hundreds of supposed game industry courses in the UK. Yet amazingly only 6 of these are accredited by Skillset! There are now more people in training for the video game industry than there are in the industry. The vast majority of these people are wasting their time and money.
    • Game companies are mainly not very well run. This is because it is an immature industry and the management skills and practices are just not there. It is much, much nicer working in an organisation that is run properly. Which you are far more likely to find outside gaming.
    • The industry is firing, not hiring. Lots of game studios have closed, many have shed jobs. Electronic Arts alone is shedding 1,500 people. There are lots of very good, very experienced game developers who can’t get a job. Against that newbies don’t stand a chance.
    The proof, as they say, is in the pudding. And over the years I have seen lots and lots of people leave the video game industry. They move to other industries where the work is better, they earn more money, they get promotions and they have job security.


    If after all this you are still determined then I have some advice. Don’t train for the video game industry. Instead train to get a very good qualification that the game industry needs but which you could use in other industries. Maths and physics are the prime examples. There is a huge shortage of graduates in these subjects, so you would be far more attractive to a game company. Good artists and C++ programmers are more common, so less valued. But they are still both qualifications that can be used in many industries.
     
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  2. Jimmy Thicker

    Jimmy Thicker Vice Admiral Sir Tim. One Of Us

    I agree with a lot of that. I don't agree that the wages are 'terrible', not for a programmer with good negotiation skills anyway.

    I also don't agree that physics or maths degrees are greatly sought after. Just as there's surprisingly little design in games development, there's also surprisingly little physics programming. Certainly in any form connected to the content of a physics degree.

    These things are certainly a plus, but they're not gold dust.

    I would say if you are a competent C++ programmer and can produce a nice game demo you will be able to find programming work in the games industry without too much difficulty. If you are smart and hard working you can reach 'senior' status in just a few years. Salary will be less than banking but you'll still earn more than 75% of the working population.

    Re. "the work itself is often tedious, repetitive and boring", that's virtually any job I'd say. As a programmer the tasks that make up game development are absorbing and rewarding on a daily basis, despite the periods of grind and boredom that can happen.
     
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  3. Base13

    Base13 Industry Unprofessional One Of Us

    There are a lot of good points made there, although I think Codemasters messed-up recruitment is not the best example.

    I recently had an interview at Rare as a designer. I was told by HR that they had already had over 400 applicants for the role. That is the kind of opposition designers are up against.
     
  4. JarkkoL

    JarkkoL Lurker Not From Round Here

    I hope the IQ test part is a joke, or did they actually make you go through an IQ test? :) I have heard many things about Codies and have worked there myself too with my share of experiences, but this takes the top place if true ;)
     
  5. Rusty_Nutz

    Rusty_Nutz BANNED One Of Us

    Back in days of yore when I worked at codies you did indeed need to sit an aptitude test for every role you went for. Generally before your actual interview. We where told that if you failed the IQ test, you would only see the HR people and be sent on your way. If you passed the IQ test, then the people who would actually interview you would meet you and talk from there.

    I bought a book on passing selection tests, read it, practised on the train journey and obviously, passed the test.

    But they lost the results, and when they offered me the job then said it was on the understanding I resit the aptitude test when I started.

    I told them to kiss my arse, didn't re sit it, and still started work.

    This was in old cow pregnancy building times, things may well have changed a lot since then.
     
  6. Base13

    Base13 Industry Unprofessional One Of Us

    I've been through these twice in the past at Codies, as Rusty_Nutz says it is called an aptitude test rather than an IQ test, although many of the questions are similar.

    As a designer, the first time I also had to do a games knowledge test. That was really messed up. They were questions like "What type of animal do you fight after crossing the bridge on level 3 of Tomb Raider 2?" (I cannot remember which level or version of TR the real question referred to). Assuming you had played the exact games they bring up, do you remember every enemy you have fought (and level theme, hat colour, etc.)?
     
  7. m_hael

    m_hael Professional Coffee Drinker One Of Us

    i remember those tests... as a programmer with 5 years exp in engine development i was a little put off at being asked the character names of obscure japanese games... to top it all off they tried to low ball me by around 40% ... strangely i didn't accept the job.
     
  8. Xajin

    Xajin Codebastard One Of Us

    All jobs have an aptitude test. Its called THE INTERVIEW.

    If you're not capable of determining whether someone is bright in an interview then perhaps you should be more introspective with your aptitude testing...

    :deadcrab:
     
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  9. Paddy O'Lanterns

    Paddy O'Lanterns Artist Punchbag One Of Us

    Picking one point out from your post:

    I've worked as a programmer in industry (Oil and Gas), as a computing lecturer and as a tools programmer. I love programming, and I live for it. I am one of the lucky ones who gets paid to do their hobby. My thoughts on all of these (good) points is this; you should do a job that you are passionate about, not one that will make you bucket loads of money.

    ... I guess I'm saying that money doesn't make you happy. It didn't in my case, in fact it almost damn near killed me. Me, my wife and my family are now happier than we've ever been without the constant keeping up with the Joneses.

    [Edit:]

    Also, a lot of your points are relevant to non-game programming too:

    I had my fair share of crunch / non-paid overtime working outside games. Why do you think they gave me a laptop, an RSA key fob and access to the VPN? :D
     
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  10. BrownClaw

    BrownClaw Half-Sack One Of Us

    If there are so few Games Designers around, how come I'm not paid according to my scarcity? :)
     
  11. NiceButDim

    NiceButDim I am Adam, Prince of Eternia One Of Us

    Maybe they factor in talent?

    :coat:
     
  12. Serendipity

    Serendipity Lurker Not From Round Here

    Review on your Article

    * Playing video games is fun, it is entertainment. So you might think that making video games is fun. It isn’t. Not more or less than other jobs. Because that is what it is, just another job.

    That's a very pessimistic attitude. I play video games and I make video games. I do think though when it comes to jobs, that it is what you make of it. You can work at a job that you hate or you can work at a job you like. The choice is of course always yours. While you may need the cash, no one forces you to do a job.

    * People who are industry wannabes always say that they want to be game designers. This is because they don’t know how a game is made. In fact there are very few game designers involved. On any development team the main sort of people are artists (of different sorts) and programmers (of different sorts).

    I think it is a bit childish to use terms like wannabe. It's like when I see people using the word noob. Anyways, there are a myriad of vocations and positions within the game industry and you confuse game design with graphical artists and then programmers. Bruce, there are many more positions which are required to make a game. Actual game designers/inventors are a very different breed than say level designers or art etc. You have production roles, QA, lots of engineers for various types of specializations. The reason why there are few game designers involved is due to the creative/inventive skill sets are not readily distributed.


    * Being keen about video games is no qualification whatsoever for working in the industry. Being a good computer programmer or artist is a much better basis. Even better is to be very good at maths. Game companies want people with the skills to make games and being an enthusiast isn’t a skill.

    Enthusiasm is taken into account when I'm looking at resumes. If you're lacking it and someone else has it? You can go work for somewhere else; I'm not about to put a rotten apple into my bag where they can sow discord and ruin a good work and team environment.

    * The competition to get into the game industry is fierce because there are so many wannabes. So the industry can be very, very choosy. When I was at Codemasters the minimum degree to get in was a 2.1 and you had to score over 130 in an IQ test.

    I wouldn't at all use an IQ test to judge, and I find that is a very old fashioned mentality when trying to review candidates. I like to create relevant and engaging scenarios that the candidates can showcase not only their education, but also life skills and other qualities such as honesty. For programmers? I've had them do a pretend hot fix for a bit of code. For artists, I have had them do a concept sketch for something they'd like in game and tell me why. Because face it, when you are sorting through 900 resumes, your first judgement call is based only on how they have presented themselves in their resume. They can make mistakes, you can make mistakes. But if you use a creative hiring process in which it engages and allows you to see a brief snapshot of them at work, I find that much more valuable.

    * Because so many people want in the wages are terrible. Similarly qualified graduates going into other industries will typically earn a lot more.

    I don't agree with you on this, at all. Wages are driven by many different strings and you will always find a 'graduate going into other industries.....earn[ing] a lot more' as the grass is always greener on the other side.

    * If the wages are bad then the working conditions are worse. Crunch is a widespread practice in the industry. Huge numbers of hours of unpaid overtime.


    I hate hearing the word crunch. If you are really wanting to look at it with neutral eyes, every single industry across the world has 'crunch'. The old thought that it is purely a game industry term is so out of date. Across the world, in every industry, you have people doing overtime without pay, time in lieu that never comes, etc from businesses that choose to not value their employees.

    * Career advancement is typically very, very slow. This is because most of the jobs are at a similar level, programming and creating art.

    Career stagnation is somewhat a non-issue with new generations not staying in a position or company for many years as was the norm in the past. Workers are realizing the value in quality of life balance over cash/advancement. As such, there's a trade-off when it comes to advancement; you yourself are the writer of your own destiny. If you are qualified and have the experience and look at the entire career advancement/recruitment stage as a selling opportunity rather than 'putting your hours in', you'll do well.

    * The work itself is often tedious, repetitive and boring. It is a hard slog to create all the dots that you see on the screen. There really are lots of better and more interesting jobs in the world.

    Come on, work everywhere can be tedious.

    * Job security is awful. Companies routinely get rid of people as the work flow fluctuates. No matter how good you are it is ridiculously easy to find yourself out of a job.

    That is normal practice across every single industry. ESA released information that "it is projected that the industry will support over a quarter of a million American jobs. The average salary for direct employees is $92,300, resulting in total national compensation of $2.2 billion." Not bad. But with the global economic crisis, it has touched across all industries and the games industry is no exception as businesses cope with these pressing times.

    * The training industry has jumped onto exploiting the wannabe. Lots of colleges and universities have jumped on the bandwagon. There are now hundreds of supposed game industry courses in the UK. There are now more people in training for the video game industry than there are in the industry. The vast majority of these people are wasting their time and money.

    I'm glad there are more people training. It's great to know that people are actively seeking out ways to get into an industry that they want to get into, and I'm going to be that much happier passing on the torch to someone else when the time comes for me to head away. I don't think offering a service which meets a need is exploiting the consumer. Your mentality on this would mean the local fish and chips shop is exploiting me because I'm hungry and want a meal. A business that meets the need of the consumer is doing what a business should be doing. As long as it is legal, there is no issues. Otherwise, talk to the universities who met my need for multiple degrees.

    * Game companies are mainly not very well run. This is because it is an immature industry and the management skills and practices are just not there. It is much, much nicer working in an organisation that is run properly. Which you are far more likely to find outside gaming.

    I'm surprised you said this. I know the company I'm in is run very smoothly. It is far from immature and the cross industry skills and backgrounds we have propelled our company forward and able to handle many issues in a quick turnaround time. The global economic crisis has shown us that every single industry has had some absolutely terrible management which has resulted in all of us being touched on. My knee-jerk response is to ask what business do you represent that is successful and are run properly?

    * The industry is firing, not hiring. Lots of game studios have closed, many have shed jobs. There are lots of very good, very experienced game developers who can’t get a job. Against that newbies don’t stand a chance.


    Again, you do a doom and gloom. While such prophetic words are the current flavor I for one look wholeheartedly towards the future with a growing industry that will adapt to ever changing consumer demands and business experiences. While EA may have had to lay off 1,500 jobs across a reasonable timeframe, it is not representative of the industry itself. Yes, companies are looking always at leaner more efficient productivity. That doesn't mean we are all closing up shop.


    For this article, my feeling is you are very pessimistic and are talking about issues that you yourself have never been a part of. While pessimism and talking negatively about issues is the current enjoyed social norm due to global issues, as with all markets, the industry will continue to garner strength and overcome these current times. I for one am very excited about what the future holds for studios. I don't rate this piece very highly at all and generally look at it as a rant about multiple topics that someone who worked for a very short period in unsuccessful companies in the industry trying to mush them all together with a tag that says, "Game Industry is Bad". There are highly complex social and global issues on many of the topics you brought up and failed to recognize.

    Out of 5 stars, I'd rate this 2.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2009
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  13. haydxn

    haydxn your mum One Of Us

    yeah, needs more splosions and tits
     
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  14. Puppy

    Puppy I make games One Of Us

    Mostly "around" nowadays, huh? I think the way you're hanging "around" TCE in the public forums after being banned is quite symbolic of your actual involvement with the games industry.

    Your "tips" are obviously clouded by your bitterness. I was going to come up with a parody version of your post titled "You don't want to write a blog about the video game industry" but I couldn't be arsed as it'd go over your head anyway.

    (Well, the real reason is the fact that the Cabal is on strike for improved medical insurance to members)
     
  15. Jimmy Thicker

    Jimmy Thicker Vice Admiral Sir Tim. One Of Us

    Puppy you sound like a playground bully.

    The post was constructive and food for debate. Unlike yours which was just nasty.
     
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  16. Anthony Flack

    Anthony Flack tedious space wanker One Of Us

    It's just the really obvious, stereotypical view of working in a large studio, is it not? The industry is far more diverse than that, especially now. For example, almost none of those points applied to my own current personal experience in the game industry. If you don't want to work your way up the ladder at a big company, then don't do that.

    Also, I've worked "regular jobs", and being a game designer really isn't what I'd call one of those.
     
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  17. AN_D_K

    AN_D_K Industry Veteran (correct spelling) One Of Us

    Does anyone else think it sounds dated? Like it would have been spot-on advice several years ago?
     
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  18. Eclectic

    Eclectic Banned

    41st post from AN_D_K having a go at me.
     
  19. Rusty_Nutz

    Rusty_Nutz BANNED One Of Us

    No, he's having a go at the post.

    Puppy had a go at you.

    Spot the difference?
     
  20. MaciejS

    MaciejS Industry Superbeing One Of Us

    Please don't tell me you actually counted?
     
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