Suing for correct credits

I got seriously screwed over by my last employer and ended up quitting due to stress / bullying / sexual harassment.

I worked on the project from pre-production to Alpha. To add insult to injury, I've been given an 'additional thanks' credit, despite being *very* senior on the project.

I have contacted them to try and resolve this amicably, and they have told me to fuck off. Basically, they said everyone who left before completion only gets this credit.

Do they have a legal basis for this?

Has anyone here had experience suing a company for fair accreditation?

 

Unless there is something specific in your contract that also explicitly continues after you leave the company you don't have any legal right to demand to be included in the credits. This is one of the main things that a games developer union would be negotiating for along the same lines as the movie industry where there are specific and fair rules about who gets credits for what.

In Europe at least I think it would be illegal for the company to deny that you worked on the game (the right of the creator to be identified as the author of the work), but only if people specifically asked them about it not as part of the credits in the game.

However who cares? No future employer will actualy bother to load up a copy of a game to check that a credit is there for the work you did on the project, they check references that you provide so assuming you are still friendly with at least one of the people who worked there you're fine.

For your friends and family you can tell them the detailed story of how you got shafted by the company and explain that's why there's no credit for you there.

THIS is what you should be suing them over.

 

Thanks, Recurse!

No, but they might check MobyGames for example, and I will look like a liar, or have to explain the rather painful circumstances surrounding a shitty credit.

I don't have much in the way of written evidence of the harassment, it was (baring a few emails) always verbal. while lots of people witnesses it, I don't think any of them would be willing to back me.

Anyway, I'm off to see a lawyer about my options. Will let you know what he says.

 

Most people don't count on MobyGames to have complete credits. As long as there isn't a huge discrepancy, you'll be fine.

When I check MobyGames, if 25% of the shipped games on the guys resume are missing, it's understandable. MobyGames just isn't that complete. Especially if they were DS ports of My Pony Trainer, or something of that nature.

However, if the guy claims to have worked on 20 AAA shipped titles as Lead Game Designer, and he only has 4 credits listed, then I start to get suspicious. Not enough to completely write him off, but I will investigate further.

 

I presume the game is finished (or will be by the time this is resolved), so even if you do win they are not going to update the credits on a done product.

You are probably upset with the company and this just seems like one more insult, but the best thing to do is put it behind you and move on. Being able to explain what you did on a project, the challenges you had and the solutions you came up with is much more important in a job interview than being able to point to a credit in Mobygames.

In my experience game credits just cause arguments (who goes first, what titles people get, who deserves a full credit, etc). No one reads them, there is no standardization of roles/titles. I believe we would be better off getting rid of them completely.

 

Mobygames can be edited can't it?

You can just explain that it was the companies policy to only include people who were there at the end of the game, and although you're a bit sad about not having the credit the main thing is that you are pleased to have worked on such good game (if it is a good game of course).

No...you should never need to go into details about negative situations in an interview.

First up you should turn it round and say that there were ongoing poor practices that were resulting in unneccessary stress which you tried to get resolved by suggesting x, y, z changes. Instead of addressing the issue senior management just insisted that everyone work harder for the rest of the project. You felt that as the project was coming to an end and the remainder of the project was just finishing off the level designs and bug fixes that your skills would be better used elsewhere.

If the interviewer continues to ask for more details you could say that there were some people who were not pleasant to work with in high pressure situations - but as that was a unique situation it's not something that is going to be productive to talk about.

If they STILL ask for more details and ask how you'd cope with a similar situation in future say that you'd follow the company guidelines for complaining about sexual harassment.

Seriously - people who are competent at running companies know that people leave their jobs because other people are just dicks. That won't be viewed as a negative by anywhere you would want to work.

 

Mobygames is a pain in arse if you've worked for EA / some other companies.

EA don't credit in manuals.

Mobygames insist on proof of credit.

So basically you need to fire up every game and video the credits and then send it to them to get them to list them.

Completely retarded and complete PITA.

Needs some kind of vouching system to allow credits - e.g. people you enter as worked on project get notified via Mobygames to say 'yes, person X worked with me' ...

Still - your company sounds like a bag of wank, not sure what you think you'll get from receiving proper credits other than a 'gold star' so is it worth spending money over.

The harassment and probable constructive dismissal / assrape is something you need to pursue immediately though.

 

I expect that anyone who has been in the industry more than 10 minutes will have been screwed out of a credit at some stage, and would therefore not rely on a credit listing as proof of what someone has or hasn't done.

YMMV, but I doubt it will be a problem to list what you did on the title on your CV. One caveat though - be honest that you left at Alpha, but don't say why (you'll be asked in any interview, and I'd suggest being honest but diplomatic at that point).

 

"I left before the game was finished, they bump all former staff down to special thanks". It's so common that nobody will bat an eyelid.

 

Indeed, it is standard practice at many companies. You can easily have someone who spends two years on a game (but left before it was finished) with special thanks and someone who was there for just six weeks (or whatever the minimum is) with a full credit. Everyone in the industry knows this which is why we attach little weight to credit when hiring.

 

Agreed with the posters above. Not getting a full credit, or not even getting a credit at all, is so common it's practically standard and actually getting a credit is almost unusual.

Obviously anyone who starts claiming they worked on Crysis, Half Life 2, GTA 4, COD:MW2 and all six Total War games will likely be looked at with at least one raised eyebrow, and equally obviously lying about what you've worked on is never a good idea; but you've worked on this project, you can prove it if asked, nothing more to say really. If anyone asks "but it only says 'additional thanks'" (and "I left before the end and that's their credits policy" isn't enough to satisfy them, which seems unlikely), then what they're really asking about is your experience - which you should be able to address by confidently asking whatever specific questions they ask about your role. I very much doubt anyone pays that much attention to credits though - anyone with half a brain would rather hire "someone good" than "someone who worked on a good game".

 

Some good advice here. Be prepared for questions about why you left before the game was finished though.

it really is just a text file in the game though, can't imagine anyone caring enough to load the game up and take a look. If you can talk confidently about the work you did on the game and how it should be convincing enough. Would you want to work at a company that ignores everything you said about your work experience and went with MobyGames as a reference instead?

One of the worst places I've worked at (hello DDI!) left my name in the credits when I left as punishment.

 

Do not underestimate "a few emails". Unless your treatment was "acceptable" in the context of the company you'll probably find quite a few witnesses willing to support your case. If you think that they would be fearful of losing their jobs over it then...

1) There is something deeply wrong at your former employer
2) Your case solidifies
3) If they come forward and are dismissed their case is pretty solid too

 

Mobygames lists less than half the titles I worked on, as far as I'm concerned it means nothing. I can go into detail about any of the games I have worked on if asked.

To illustrate why I don't think Mobygames is reliable -

http://www.mobygames.com/game/psp/midnight-club-la-remix

"There are no game credits on file for this release of the game. Everything in MobyGames is contributable by users."

Even R* games don't have complete details.

 

Yeah, look, I'm probably just a bit fucked off right now. It just felt like the final insult after the rest of the bad behaviour. The credits are baked in to the title sequence, so it's not like you'd have to play the whole game to see them, it's just annoying.

It's also a bit of a sore point for me because I didn't get any credits at my last job since all the games were cancelled during production so I've got a big gap since my last published title.

I saw the lawyer and the easiest and most rewarding course of action is work compensation. The legal route to sort out the credits thing is so nasty, it would be like going to war with the Borg armed with a rusty spoon.

 

I ended up as "special thanks" on two of the games I worked on, because they got moved to another company before completion (either because the publisher insisted on it, or because the company went into administration).

It's never held me back, and I don't think the fact that I've worked on those titles has ever been in question. That said, it probably helps that the titles I have been credited for are the better ones.

It is a bit shit that we don't have any kind of movie-industry style standardisation, but there are worse problems in the games industry than crediting.

 

Dude, tell me about it. I know everyone pounced on the 'why you shouldn't work in games' thread for being stale, but I felt a lot of that was valid, especially for the ladies. (AmIRightLadies?)

There is only so much shit one can take 'for the love of games'.

 

In some projects not only was I not credited properly, I wasn't credited at all. It doesn't stop me from putting it on my CV. Never been a problem.

Moby Games is a joke. I'm still not even on it since I only worked on mobile phone games (major ones).

 

According to mobygames I have not written a game in 8 years! I have in fact during that time worked on code that has been in over 20 games where no-one had credits.

Hopefully the next one will have some, so they can see I haven't died yet.

 

Perhaps we (TCE) should petition Mobygames to actually wake the fuck up and improve their credit validation system.