Piracy will save us all?

Discussion in 'General Gossip, Troll Wars & Game Development' started by RaspoFabs, Jan 8, 2010.

  1. RaspoFabs

    RaspoFabs Advanced Troll One Of Us

    I've never been one that's all that worried about piracy in games, and now I'm thinking that it's not true. I previously held that people who pirated where just not going to buy a game anyway, that they weren't lost sales, they were just people that didn't want to spend the money that way.

    Music and games and anything copyable, I've enjoyed being able to preview before buying. All the games I like, I own, however some I've pirated before buying (to see if they were good enough) and some after (because I've lost the media).

    Now, I realise I was wrong. Pirates aren't even lost sales, they're free advertising. A great game that gets pirated gets more word of mouth advertising than a game that can't be pirated. Then you get even more people pirating it and they leak into the people that do buy their games and you get even more real sales too. Sounds like it's all profit to me. I know that I'm not going to put any protection on my game when I release it, in hope that people will pirate it and spread the word for me.

    What's your view on free advertising through bittorrent?
     
  2. Spookje

    Spookje Floating white sheet One Of Us

    I've always thought there's some bad sides and some good sides to pirating games. The 'reduced income' that people keep focusing on is a bad thing, the extra word of mouth you mention is a good thing. Then there's the sale factor: how many people that pirate it would actually buy it if they couldn't pirate. And there are probably some more things that go into the quite elaborate equation.

    I'm still not sure if the outcome is positive or negative in the end. I am convinced though that it's not nearly as bad as RIAA/MPAA/whathaveyou organizations would like you to believe (Hollywood had its best year ever in 2009, for example) and probably not as good as Piratebay fans are proclaiming. As always, somewhere in the middle.

    word_of_mouth - reduced_sales * sale_factor ... = outcome

    Anybody else care to add to this formula? :)
     
  3. RaspoFabs

    RaspoFabs Advanced Troll One Of Us

    maybe it can be put simply as:

    if the number of people who buy your game when piracy is unavailable are greater than the number of people who buy your game when it is easy to pirate, then you should try to protect your game.

    figuring out these two values is the contentious point.

    My opinion is that free advertising almost always outweighs piracy. To the point that you can use free advertising from one game to promote the sequel and beyond, whereas DRM only ever affects the buying rate on one title at a time.
     
  4. DrDeth

    DrDeth Gamer One Of Us

    If the argument for piracy is that [the collective] you wanted to 'preview before buying', then this argument falls short when a demo is available.

    Alternatively, if your theory holds true, you should be able to release a fully functional time-limited version without seeing any pirated versions appear.

    Doubtful. Unfortunately, there are, and always will be, those who pirate for underhanded reasons - free is cheaper, after all.
     
  5. RaspoFabs

    RaspoFabs Advanced Troll One Of Us

    The argument only falls short for those that do "preview" a game when a demo is available. And previewing "to the end of the game a couple of times" is also just not cricket either.

    The last game I previewed was F.E.A.R. and it managed to engage me for about five minutes before I felt that I wasted my time getting hold of it. If you consider this to be piracy, then letting your friends "have a go" of a game in your own home should be considered piracy too. And I believe it is by the RIAA... which is unfortunate because it's not sensible.
     
  6. MickWest

    MickWest Cowboy Programmer Staff Member Moderator

    The argument also fall short because practically nobody in the real world pirates games to "preview" them. They either pirate them or they buy them.

    The benefits of piracy are:

    A) Word of mouth advertising - if people pirate 1,000,000 copies then maybe 5,000 people might hear of, or be shown, your game from a pirate friend, and buy it.
    B) Brand loyalty - if someone pirates your first two game and really like them, then they might actually buy the next games, especially if pirating them is a bit harder than before.

    There need to be sufficient impediments to piracy for either of those benefits to actualize. If you give people a choice between getting a game for free and paying $20 for it, and both ways are equally easy, then the outcome would be different from if the free version was harder to get (like on Bittorret), or easier (like if your paid version had poor server activated DRM that did not work).

    It's really very hard to say what's going to happen, as there are lots of other factors to consider. How good is the game? Is there already an established community following or anticipating the game? What's the marketing budget? What is the target audience?
     
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  7. blueeyedboy

    blueeyedboy Will Wright One Of Us

    If we except that piracy leads to word of mouth advertising and builds brand loyalty then the question we should be asking is: How can we achieve these goals without piracy?

    People (especially students) who download Maya 3D often claim they do it to learn the software so they can then apply these skills in work environment. This helps Autodesk when selling copies of Maya to companies for lots of money. However, it does involve people pirating Maya.

    A much better solution is the one used by Microsoft for Visual Studio. They give away the Express editions. This both encourages people to learn Microsoft's software platforms/languages and it removes the need to pirate Visual Studio.
     
  8. MickWest

    MickWest Cowboy Programmer Staff Member Moderator

    There's a difference though between apps and games. If you're going to use an app for years then it makes sense to ease into it with a free (or even pirated) version. With a game, or many games at least, you only play them for a few weeks.

    Game demos are the obvious thing here. But you don't get the same WOM from a demo as from all your pirate friends playing the full version.
     
  9. blueeyedboy

    blueeyedboy Will Wright One Of Us

    Maybe we should make it easier to turn game demos into the full game.

    It would be interesting to see XBLA some stats. How many played the demo and then upgraded to the full version versus how many ignored the demo and just bought the game. I suspect more people try the demo first on XBLA compared to full Xbox games despite the full Xbox games costing more. The XBLA demo to full game is an easy path.

    Maybe demos should be bigger with enough content that people can become fans just from the demo. Shareware games typically used to give away the first third of the game.
     
  10. MickWest

    MickWest Cowboy Programmer Staff Member Moderator

    Yeah, when you download the Photoshop demo, it's actually a time-limited 30-day full version (a 1GB download). Then when you buy it you just get an activation code you copy and past in and wham it's yours.

    Game demos could in theory do something similar, but people don't like to wait that long - maybe download a locked full version in the background while you play the demo. Most indy games are pretty small though.
     
  11. DrDeth

    DrDeth Gamer One Of Us

    Most of the game demos I've looked at downloading over the past year have been on the rather large side themselves. Perhaps this too isn't aiding the 'cause' if one could download a 2GB demo, or download [pirate] the 2.1GB full version?
     
  12. Bitterman

    Bitterman Not From Round Here One Of Us

    It's true. And all too often, it's a 2GB download and only got half an hour of content in it. Not even worth looking at.

    Bring back the days of Doom. Fully one-third of the game for free. I gather id became quite successful as a result, whatever happened to them anyway...?
     
  13. MegaGreenbean

    MegaGreenbean Crap vegetable One Of Us

    For a purely single player, content and story heavy game, with no significant extras or built in social aspects (shared user levels or server based systems etc), I'd be a fan of releasing the first 1/3rd of the game free to play with a streaming-download for the remaining two thirds on paid activation in one or two stages. A sort of very very slow to pay coin op game. Expect a pirated version, but perhaps counter it with something like "first 10000 players get the game free" type things when sales are down and try create a one off buzz? (World of Goo is the example here I guess). Maybe try something very remarkable/risky/mad like contacting a second tier warez group and give them a pre-hacked copy or a drm free copy, as long as they promise to give credit and let them spread the word (eh, only for Indies I think, no shareholders of a publisher are going to stomach this.)

    Alot of the casual games did a 1 hour free trial approach, regardless of where you were in the game. Perhaps the psychology of the 1 hour is that you had to make the most of it, and thus were more likely to focus and get into the game. Makes sense for non-content heavy games, like puzzlers.

    Obviously alot of games are pushing hard at the social and server side aspects - with many on Facebook being free for the gameplay, but paid for the bits that your friends will notice, like your clothes or your special items. Piracy isn't really possible without a major server cloning task and worse, people are tied to where their friends are.

    Outside of Facebook there are games like the Sims and Spore which only become more special for players the more they get into the social bits (story/character sharing), although they may only be a minority. Getting a hacked copy and putting their account for sharing at risk is pretty much out of the question for those players too. Not so much for the rest.
     
  14. plaf

    plaf Peter Molyneux One Of Us

    Autodesk in fact do the same with the Maya Learner's edition - but it's always nice for a student to have the real deal, I guess, and I assume there are also limitations on said Learner's Edition, such as inability to export/import or whatnot. Given that the real version of Maya is so expensive though... it's pretty much 100% certain that no student would ever, in the history of the universe, go out and buy it outright.
     
  15. blueeyedboy

    blueeyedboy Will Wright One Of Us

    Autodesk discontinued the Personal Learner's edition back in 2008.
     
  16. plaf

    plaf Peter Molyneux One Of Us

    Ah. True, I guess you can only get a 30-day trial now - oh well, I guess it doesn't make much difference when most people seem to get the "extended trial"
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2010
  17. IFW

    IFW Not allowed to say NFTS are shit One Of Us

    I dont buy this "piracy isnt a lost sale bullshit"

    I know "lots of people" * who used to buy lots of music, who used to rent and buy movies - but now they* just download them for free. If that's not a lost sale, then i'm great uncle fucking bulgaria.


    * = not me guv.. honest!!!!
     
  18. RaspoFabs

    RaspoFabs Advanced Troll One Of Us

    Yes, some people make the counter-point obvious, but people only have a finite amount of money, so there are (I believe, not know) many more pirated copies of games out there that couldn't be afforded than there are copies of games that could, but were stolen, which was the point of the word of mouth trade off. Sure, there are some lost sales, but if your game doesn't get into the hands of thousands somehow, you're going to remain obscure and unpurchased anyway.

    I think my point is: would you prefer 10-100 sales with no piracy, or 100-1000 sales and 10,000 pirate copies flying around torrent space?
     
  19. Spookje

    Spookje Floating white sheet One Of Us

    The mistake a lot of these piracy researchers make is that they count every pirated copy as a 'lost sale'. But that's not true of course. There's plenty of people that only play your game (or use your app, listen to your music, whatever) if they can pirate it from somewhere. If they can't, they just won't get it, and they won't sleep less for it too much either. It's not like your product is a unique and/or life-essential thing, after all. This makes it very hard to get a good insight into this whole thing.
     
  20. plaf

    plaf Peter Molyneux One Of Us

    Sounds familiar. But if matey couldn't have downloaded that particular movie, he wouldn't have rented it, he only downloaded it because he could - which made him aware that it was actually good. (and so the world was saved)