Ever more producers

I don't mean QA can be totally replaced- this is not an industry of absolutes- however you can build a product that essentially QA's itself, *allowing* your QA to find the deep issues and the hidden flaws that you don't even realize exist.

But if your QA is constantly dealing with "the game doesn't load" after every check-in, then they cannot find those deep issues that would make your product more secure, user friendly, and 99% stable.

 

Yeah, I don't think we'd be disagreeing with that. We do a bunch of automated testing on the game. Checking that every level loads, fits in memory, doesn't crash. That sort of thing.

 

I'd be downright ashamed if I passed to QA a build that didn't load, heh.

 

When you have a hundred levels, it's a little tricky to test each one personally, each time you make a change. So we automated that.

 

we automated that too... we have a mail that get sent to QA so that they can test it out.

the mail is automated...

I think.

 

We have a string of little coloured indicators in an application. Automated emails go to a standard list of people, plus whoever the system determines may have caused the problem. It works that out based on who committed changes between tests. Our tools are tested every time someone makes a changelist that modifies them. Our gamedata changes too often for that to be practical, so it runs at scheduled intervals.

 

hmmm i started reading a thread that was entitled "Ever more producers"
and guess what? a page later or so i found my self in a thread called "Why do we need QA!"

there must have been a magic portal somewhere or maybe the page links got messed up!

I think a producer is needed to point out things like that

 

There are fields, endless fields where QA are no longer born; they are grown.

 

its the catch 22. Yo don't want your best production people to become producers, you don't want QA to be producers.. so where to producers come from!

Production managers are better than producers. There should only be one producer in an IP. the executive producer.

 

Management school would be a good start.

 

which is what a production manager is.

a lot of studios confuse what a producer and a production manager should be doing. I've been in a studio that had 15 producers on an IP, not a pretty sight

 

In my experience, the "competent" producer is a requirement for a successfull full game development cycle. I've seen too many projects go into overtime and burning out the team due to incompetent and ambitious asskissers making all the million-bucks decisions while being completly unable to evaluate resources, plan to a dead line or understand production constraints.
I used to believe that only producers with production experience behind them can fit in this category... Alas, it's down to the quality of the person rather their professional experience. Oh, and I was surprised to notice that most of the producers with any previous production experience I've met were crap game developers. That made me appreciate even more the really awesome ones I had a chance to work with!

 

Prince 2 would be a start, Scrum course is a joke but nothing beats going through the process. Soft skills are often undervalued and essential for good producers too.

And that good producers cant come from QA is a load of bollocks, its up there with we cant apprentice a designer because they come from QA: horse shit - where does this prejudice shit come from? Not from any reality I know.

Fanta, springs to mind, he is a fantastic producer with all of the necessary skills and has a solid track record, he has a solid background in QA too, and its all to his merit. Id work with him anytime.

The sad fact is most people hate producers, they often dont have a clue about what they have to deal with. They are rarely thanked and are always in the firing line when things go wrong, and lets face it all projects have set backs.

Who gets the shit? The producer - professional cat herder.

 

I have no idea what this means. What is a production manager and how are they different to a producer?

 

You usually find Production Managers paired up with Producers. They are in charge of the scheduling, risk management and resource utilisation while the Producer handles the creative oversight. I think the role is appearing more often as companies realise that the two skillsets are more efficient when allowed to focus on their role. I know I am happier being a Project Manager than a Producer. I can be a Producer but my decisions are usually based on project efficiencies than what makes a game better (or even good). That being said, a Production Manager/Project Manager needs to have some grasp of game design principles, much like a Producer should understand some project management basics.

In Agile/Scrum terms, you can think of a Producer as being more of a Product Owner and a Production Manager as being more of a Scrum Master. The former expects product to be delivered while the latter helps plan and streamline that product's development.

Also:

 

So a project manager and a lead designer/creative director. Its like we already have terms for these positions....

Can we not just do what films do? Producer handles all the project management and money side, Director makes the film.

 

All producers are rubbi-

Hey wait, this is in the public forum?

Carry on!

 

Wow - you replied to a post I made seven years ago!

I did not say good producers can't come from QA but I am questioning if that is the best background for a producer to have.