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Belbin Team Roles?

Discussion in 'General Gossip, Troll Wars & Game Development' started by Brian Beuken, Oct 29, 2020.

?

Do you use Belbin Team Roles

  1. yes we find it effective

    2.9%
  2. yes but we don't find it effective

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. no

    11.8%
  4. never heard of it

    85.3%
  1. Brian Beuken

    Brian Beuken Boring Old Fart One Of Us

    We teach this to some degree at our school... I think its bollox.......

    Anyone use it in anger in industry?
     
  2. Jimmy Thicker

    Jimmy Thicker Vice Admiral Sir Tim. One Of Us

    Business horoscopes.

    With these models, they're useful to get a discussion going, as they illustrate the different ways people can act in the same situation.

    They turn into bollox if people treat them like laws of the universe carved in stone. It's just one model.
     
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  3. Arend101

    Arend101 Post-It™ Printer One Of Us

    I am mightily suspicious of inventories like this one, the meyers-briggs inventory, 16 question inventory, etc. Most of them have their origins in research conducted in North America and/or Europe in the mid 20th Century and skew very much towards what was deemed 'normal' for middle-aged, white people in their results. They tend not to take into account the factors that may have shaped the psychology of the person taking the test, be it things they are experienced during childhood, current stressors, the relationship between employee and employer, etc. Which makes their use as anything beyond a way to pass some time and go 'huh' at the result questionable in the extreme. Quite honestly, if an employer asked me to do an inventory like this today, I would refuse.
     
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  4. Brian Beuken

    Brian Beuken Boring Old Fart One Of Us

    I don't really want to prejudice the result I am very curious to know if it is used in industry.., for me, I think its utter nonsense, but education has rather embraced it, and I want to gather some real world info to make the point that there's a naked emperor running around.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
  5. DoomBot

    DoomBot Zammo One Of Us

    In 22 years I’ve never heard of this, or experienced it being used in any game dev place I have worked, if that helps. I agree with previous posts that it’s an interesting subject to discuss, but that’s about where it ends.
     
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  6. Arend101

    Arend101 Post-It™ Printer One Of Us

    I think there is some value in discussing them, because they have similar attraction for people as those inane "what ice cream topping/series character/rainbow colour/celtic deity/etc are you?" quizzes that flood social media, so from a "why do people like this?" standpoint it's worth a conversation or two. There is a significant number of people out there who want to believe that answering a not too exhaustive number of questions will give them some insight into their life or (more commonly) validate their beliefs about themselves (note how you never see people sharing negative results). They're also fascinating as a time capsule of social and academic beliefs of the time. But it should not at all be used to try and tell students which areas they need to work on to become "better" or "more well rounded."
     
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  7. sogbad

    sogbad Gamer One Of Us

    At one company we had a ‘management’ training day, we all did the meyers-briggs, we then had to form a line from the extremes, turns out I was the extreme opposite to the CEO, didn’t stay long at that job ;)
     
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  8. Brian Beuken

    Brian Beuken Boring Old Fart One Of Us

    yeah MB is utter bollox, been proven many times, but still commonly used as an HR tool... There's a very desperate need for many industries to identify the right type of people for a job, but there's really no such thing as a type of person, other than deep rooted physcological issues that are identidfied by extensive testing, most standard personality tests are as effedtive as a Cosmopoliton compatability quiz.
    But they keep getting promoted.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
  9. benjymous

    benjymous FactCheckTCE Staff Member More Equal Than Others

    Yeah, I've done a MB team event a couple of times at different companies. I think I came out exactly midway between two categories once, which the person running the course said shouldn't be possible.

    (probably because I'm naturally introverted, but have spent the last 25 years forcing myself to be outwardly extroverted in order to fit in more)

    All I remember is we got to spend a day building things out of lego, for some reason.
     
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  10. sogbad

    sogbad Gamer One Of Us

    You lucky, lucky bastard, we didn’t get lego . We dreamt of getting lego, they must of thought the sun shines out of your asses. (sorry for the poor butchered reference ).
     
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  11. Brian Beuken

    Brian Beuken Boring Old Fart One Of Us

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  12. trave

    trave Muppet One Of Us

    I remember a day (well, afternoon) of building things out of Lego as an introduction to Agile development.
     
  13. Mouseshadow

    Mouseshadow Verbizing weirds language. One Of Us

    My introduction to agile development was we were going to have a meeting about it on some Wednesday afternoon and it was cancelled at the last minute.
     
  14. Gazz

    Gazz Not a gaming god, just your average joe. One Of Us

    I did a course on agile development. Much like Prince2, it was pretty irrelevant in the real world.
     
  15. Brian Beuken

    Brian Beuken Boring Old Fart One Of Us

    I've studied PM, I can certainly see the value in some practices, I am not a massive fan of agile, its basically a posh way officialy to take credit for herding cats who all headed for the food anyway..Making sure there are no obsticles in the way and keeping the cats slightly hungry is as much as you can ever really achieve. Prince2 though is very effective in a lot of different types of project planning, and managment structure as well as some forms of product delivery, but not game dev :(
    In fact honestly most forms of production are just about keeping the cats interested in the job and making sure the food bowl gets moved to where you want them to go.

    But Belbin....well its just fucking bullshit in my view
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2020
  16. Base13

    Base13 Industry Unprofessional One Of Us

    The only time I have encountered Belbin is when I was working as a lecturer. They got students to do the test for a group project model and used the results to create better balanced teams. The groups I supervised were better balanced, but as I only supervised two, that might have been luck. Plus they could just have asked the students which role they would have preferred and allocate that way.
     
  17. Gazz

    Gazz Not a gaming god, just your average joe. One Of Us

    No, I agree, there are things you can take away from both sets of training / methodologies, but I don't think anyone would take them wholesale.
     
  18. Jimmy Thicker

    Jimmy Thicker Vice Admiral Sir Tim. One Of Us

    How about Beuken Team Roles?
     
  19. Brian Beuken

    Brian Beuken Boring Old Fart One Of Us

    nah, I don't really think its possible to make teams out of creative people, you can track them, keep things flowing, use carrots to get things done and make sure they don't go too far off track, but creatives are led by the most skilled or best leader using the skilled to look good. the others simply form support groups waiting to impress and step into dead mans shoes or form new teams. Their flaws are ignored for the sake of what they can deliver, and thats your team. a few clever smart arses, a couple of plodders who can take orders and do most things, some steady reliable but uninspiring workers, and a producer pretending he's in charge convincing managment to keep the pizza flowing and bullshitting that they're on target while begging the leads to do simpler things to finish early.

    We're all basically insane doing this shit, how do you formalise those kind of people into a coherent team?
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2020
  20. Dredge

    Dredge Doomsayer One Of Us

    MB and Belbin have very very different goals. Belbin is about identifying how the individual works, and how to best fit that into a team or project. MB is basically personality bullshit.

    Identify someone whose strengths work well as a co-ordinator of others, then assign them a role that takes advantage of that and dont give them tasks that they are not suited for.

    The reality for a lot of technical project based teams however is that the most efficient makeup is a load of specialists with a completer/finisher or two and someone who scores high in co-ordinator or evaluator in charge to keep them going in the right direction/troubleshoot. Once you identify someone is a plant for example, they rarely have uses outside of specific roles that require them to be creative and not work particularly closely with others. Plants are basically dogs that have seen a squirrel, running along fine then in the middle of a tas... SQUIRREL WOOF WOOF WOOF! And thats it, time to wrangle them back.

    Belbin is generally misunderstood as people look at it as if its a MB personality type rather than a tool to make best use of the different ways people work. You can remove all the names etc from Belbin and the principles behind it still work in terms of team makeup. Get someone good at assigning tasks... to assign the tasks. Get someone who has an indepth knowledge and capability of a specific subject... to work on that subject.

    Fuck plants.

    Belbin has basically codified it so its easier to understand, but you can perform pretty much the same task by doing a time-and-motion study of how an individual works. You soon find out if someone isnt particularly good at assessing others, or doesnt communicate well, and if you dont have time to adaquately address those issues with training, dont put them in roles that require they do a lot of that, as it will negatively impact the productivity. And likely their happiness.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020